The Third Party

Inan is gone. He's been gone for a long, long time. I've never met Inan but I heard he was excellent. What's to say he can dedicate enough time to run it again?

And what is it that we're doing so horribly as it is now?

Whats to say he wouldn't dedicate time to it? We don't know either way.

Plus, theres a bunch of people who would be great for the job as advisor.

The Advisor job is essentially to make sure decisions are being made in good time, make sure everyone is doing their basic duties actively, provide an opinion for the Admins to have available when they need it.

-Gaz

Welcome to CHB Jero!

You'll find it quite different than THG and all. Because I'm not here as awesomely as I am there

Guys, I wish we could just stop fighting and focus on the fact that the admins are just as human as we are. Real life happens and can get in the way of what's on the computer. Everyone on her is a real person and I think feelings might get hurt. It's not really needed if new people are stepping up as admins and mods, is it?

Just stating my opinion....

- Moon

Daemon wrote:

Whats to say he wouldn't dedicate time to it? We do know because he's been admin before and left. After he left, he came back to being admin for about a month and just vanished without so much as a word to anyone except the staff. So no, I don't really believe in Inan's activity. In his work, I do, very strongly even but in his activity? No, I have serious doubts.

Amen. I have no doubt in Inan's potential--the entire site seems to trust him. But I don't know about his activity and dedication. The guy obviously has other priorities.

Okay, I've thought things over a little.
The admin team is kind of unfair.

If you look through the Suggestion Box then you can see several topics of members who give good idea's. Like, a summer festival or something like that. And what is the reply every time? 'The admins are currently working on something big. ' and the admins have been saying that for a while, yet we don't really see anything happening.
Also, a while ago someone suggested a GREAT idea. Lots of other people posted in the topic, saying that it was good and adding some other small details to make it even better. But you know what? Only one admin, just one, was against the idea, and it never happened. It's somewhere in the suggestion box but I'm on my IPod so I don't have to time to find it.

Anyway, I have to admit, I wouldn't mind a change of the admin team. They're supposed to be making new changes, and make the forum better. And the forum hasn't really gone anywhere. Of course, there's been minor changes and everything, but how hard would it be to bump the forum up to SON? Or even Post- TLO? We could do a big war and post our characters there.

This is where the advisor would come in. They would be there to not be an admin, but to HELP the admins. I don't think that all of you really see the point in an advisor, or say that they're the same as an admin. But they're not.
An admin is a person who runs a forum, and make new topics for the members to enjoy. An advisor is someone who keeps people on track. The advisor would make sure that the admins are still working on whatever big thing that they have planne for the members. Because (while I know it's hard to design things and whatnot) how hard is it to just make new sections, or even just a sticky? Like, while we're waiting, it wouldn't be to hard to post a spring-fling.



That's just what I have to say.

Alright, so I am not well known here and I may not be around and as popular as most other members are, I'm not the one who is said "hi" to on chat on many occasions but that doesn't mean I don't care for the well being of this site. I myself have been doing this line of roleplaying and stuff for many, many, years. I to am experienced, maybe just as experienced as the next person. I may believe I have more experience in this regard because I have been on a site roleplaying with an older and more mature forum base. I know how things work, and I know what's best for any site.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that, members voting against Sno, Gaz, and the elites does not mean their method wont work for this site, not at all. Some members may be afraid of change, or they may be afraid of the admin team here. I mean the admin's have power to ban them, although I don't think the admin team would be so childish as to do such, but it doesn't stop that nagging thought. Some others may be afraid of change and that's really a shame because perhaps they don't understand the advisor role to an extent.

Speaking as to oppose the admin team, I mean no harm when I comment these things but, perhaps they don't want change and they don't want an advisor either, perhaps they just don't understand the complete mechanics of an advisor and how it could benefit you. Perhaps the admins are simply too lazy to make a change, or that's the reason they don't want it, I don't see such a problem in an advisor at all really.

Although to speak against Sno, Gaz, and the elites and go from an admin's point of view. Perhaps Sno and all of them are coming into their site and trying to change it, when they didn't ask for change and they really didn't ask for any of this, they don't want someone coming in here and telling them what they should to do with the site and that they're doing it wrong, I mean I just as much as the next person hate being told I'm doing something wrong because it picks on my nerves every little bit.

So to say, have a big debate like this is silly, because this poll and all these comments can go on forever, what I don't understand is, what you all could have done was try out the advisor thing for a few months and really give it a fair time to work it's way and then decide whether you want it or not. How can one decide what they want if it's never happened with them before? How can you make that choice? Really? They don't know it and they'll just got and vote for what their friend wants and it's not about pleasing your friend, it's about pleasing you and your likes and what you want to see. I believe you should try it our at least for a given three months or so to give it a fair shot and see where it goes by then and then have a poll whether the members want to keep it or not. I know this paragraph is rather redundant but it was good points and values.

I myself am well associated with Sno and Gaz, and I consider them friends but because I've experienced their method before even joining Chb it's self or one of their sites, before I even knew Sno, I liked the advisor role, and I could make an honest opinion on what I'd like to see for this site, and therefore I had voted on having an advisor, not simply because I am on speaking terms with them and know them quite well, it's because it's my own beliefs, I don't go with what any of my friends want because they want it or it'll make them happy, I go with what I want and what I'd like to see and make ME happy. So just a little note to the members here that, it'd be nice if you voted for what you want to see, I suppose if you lack knowledge in what an advisor does, I can fill you in.

An advisor is close to what Angel has described, an advisor however does not have more power than all the admins, that is not at all true, the advisor is just more of a leader role, someone who can make sure things are in order and make sure that the things are getting done on the forum, and help make the admins make you happy. A little tid bit for the admins here, it does not mean that you will lose your power, it does not mean that the advisor is better than you, and all that. To be quite fair I get all the excuses that you simply don't have a lot of time and give your reasons, well then honestly, if you don't have time to be admin and be apart of the site as much as they need you, you might as well resign because what use are you if you're gone or busy? It is nice to take an odd vacation but make sure other people are there to take over your duties and make sure that you will come back and slip right back into your duties and not slack off. This is just my honest opinion. Sorry if I offended some of you, I did not mean that and those were not my intentions, I wanted to voice my opinions and you can take it or leave it because they're my opinions and I stand by them, I am never persuaded or moved, once I have my mind made up, you will not change it. This may sound harsh but it's true.

So thank you for taking the time to read what I had to say.

Nico, although I supported the idea of an advisor in the admin cave, never once in that message did I post my opinion on this matter. I haven't even voted in the poll. I stated the ups and downs of both sides.
And you guys keep saying "We're the ones that would have to deal with the advisor". Yes, you'd be the ones working with them directly, I won't deny that. But the entire site would be affected by the things they do and the choices they make.
I have changed my opinion since our private discussion after hearing the opinions of the members. At the moment, I am unaware of where I stand on this issue.
I was also not the one to first release this issue to the public. It was discussed extensively in the chatbox, around members. We can't just talk about things like that and then not tell them what's going on.

Please know, I also never intended for this topic to talk about the capability of our current admin. If you'll notice, I praised all of you throughout that entire message.

Sno was the first to go into the chatbox with it, and then you created this topic after resigning because you were torn.

Honestly, I hate this entire thing. The votes are even. Remember when the site was split into two last year? Welp.

I'm just mad because I don't want this, and on top of everything, people are posting their opinions and the prrsonal side of admins and it's making things worse.

Nico wrote:

I don't want to give someone ultimate site power.

then don't. the Advisor was never going to have ultimate site power. you guys just think that because he or she would be there reminding you to do your job, not telling you what to do, advising you on what you should be doing while you're on the clock.

Sorella wrote:

if you don't have time to be admin and be apart of the site as much as they need you, you might as well resign because what use are you if you're gone or busy?

This point, though partially unrelated to the debate, is very important. Admins should be on the site every day for at least an hour total unless they are going to be somewhere with no internet access or have something to attend that will keep them away from the site for most of the day. Your time online isn't just sitting on chat and maybe talking about something in the Admin cave for a bit, its doing work, moderating the topics for broken rules, accepting characters, responding to any RP's you are involved in, answering members questions politely, thinking and working on ways to better the site, and most importantly, not complaining about it on chat like I've seen happen multiple times.

A site of this size should have a minimum of 4 extremely active Admins, 5 would be better, for the extra hands and the odd number to break ties in votes.

Now, here are four decisions that should be up to the Members entirely through votes:
-Firing of Staff Members
-Appointing of Staff Members
-Addition of new Legends
-New Staff Positions


One very important thing left for now, Admins...

Stop giving stupid reasons to back up your decisions. One Admin has told me I'm not worthy of being a legend because I'm too Active, but that would place 3 or 4 current legends on the same boat with me. Legend status was never intended to be solely for those who have left us, its for those who contributed.

Another Admin told me another thing, that I was not qualified to be a legend because I am a Jerk who hasn't done anything for the Site. This even after I provided both Sno's reasons of why I should be an Admin and my own list of contributions. As for the jerk part, Yes, I am a jerk here, there's just no way to stay nice to you guys all the time when you beat around the bush and can't man up to your opinion of me, instead skirting around it every time I ask. Doesn't matter though, you don't have to like me personally, it doesn't change what I did here for CHB, you can try to kill off the person from the site, but the history he leaves never dies.

Anyone who doubts my contributions is free to PM me and I will provide my nice list for you to review. I look forward to hearing the members opinions after they are aware of all I've done for this site.

Okay, it's honesty time.

I honestly think, after some reflections, that this will be good for us. I also, agree with Gaz, especially about the decisions that the members have a right to make. You guys go on and on about how the members are the most important part of the site, but then, you don't allow us to make important decisions? Sure, we had a poll for the last group of mods, but we, as long as I've been here, have NEVER had a say in admin. I'm not trying to offend any of you or make you feel put down, but it's either time for a change or you need a help. Sometimes I feel as though you guys are neglecting your roles.

So, do what you may, whatever the poll turns out to be. I just wanted you to know what I thought. It took me a lot of spunk to post this. In real life, I never share my opinion, unless it's something like "Do you like cats?". That doesn't count. Okay, yeah bye. *hides from everyone*

Jess

Alright, too much stress. When I sass my family I know it's time to stop.

I'm not leaving the site, but I'm leaving my position as admin. I don't want to be involved in decisions like this, or forced into anything I don't want to do, or be torn down for attempting a hard job that someone else gave me.

So I came here to rp, that's all I ever wanted to do, and that's what I want to do still. I don't know why an never quit before.

So Roo, Selene, Sorella, and whoever else has been caught talking behind my back can stop now, because the only thing there is to talk about is how awful Nico is for quitting.

Which would only make you hypocrites for complaining about me being admin in the first place.

And I don't have cliques. I have friends. So piss off.

(and I believe the rudeness in this pm should result in a 24 hour chatbox ban, according to the site rules, so whichever admin wants to do that can.)

All I have to say about that is I'm a member, too. The staff members are members, too.