The Third Party

I can't remember that. Even so, you should try to be bigger people.

Usually I don't like to get involved here but I think you guys are taking what Sno said a little too far, I mean honestly. I am tired of seeing this constantly going on.

Chrome, why do you not want to ever give an admin wipe? Because you don't want to loose power? Is that why? Or is it because you like doing your job? Or perhaps both? What is an admin wipe were to benefit the site? What would you do in those regards.

Par, I personally think you have gone too far with that whole thing, the fact that you edited and added in that last paragraph was quite a low blow and totally uncalled for because that has nothing to really do with current issues, Sno isn't saying he wants to be admin, or he wants Gaz to be admin, he's not even saying he wants to be advisor. All he's saying is that if he was voted in he'd do it because it's member's choice.

I'd also like to recall that night that you say you and the admins didn't bash on Hawk, I was there and I only stepped in with my rude comments because of the bashing, I do not step out of line or out of turn unless someone is being picked on, it's not cool and I will not stand for it no matter how much you people don't know me, I do what I believe is right, my momma didn't raise no fool. When you basically use a form of taunt that's linked to bashing, my dear. Let me quote some things I remember being said.

"HAWK?!"
"HAKW?!"
"ARE YOU LISTENING?"

That lovely, is taunting and a form of abuse in my eyes and most likely in many others, members and people should have a freedom of thought and opinion and be able to express that in the way they want, no member left chat during that time and if they did it was due to inactivity, again I didn't want to get involved here but with that last paragraph being a low blow at Sno it's self, I had to step in and say something. Actually you should also know one of your mod's doesn't like the character mod at all and I have a screen shot to prove myself of it.

No one was trying to be unfriendly and disrespectful here, especially Sno. He was being calm about all of this because trust me, he could be so much worse than how he is here and speaking before you now and it's not disrespect he speaks in, it's in expressing his own opinion, and same as my post right now it's self.

Sorella I'd love to see the entire context of the bashing that I so apparently did. And actually, people did leave. I can think of three people at least. Probably more.

And that low blow is nothing more than something I thought I should add because I find it extremely suspicious. And it's true. I'm not making it up, I'm stating my opinion on the matter.

As for Sno keeping his cool and being not being unfriendly or disrespectful? I also disagree. A message from Sno in response to a PM I sent to Gaz. And throughout the chat there have been multiple prods at Admins. Throughout the PMs as well. In chat.

Spoiler:

If anyone remembers, there was very minimal fighting before this advisor thing began. Before this whole idea of changing the admin team--which has worked perfectly fine for the last two years or so, possibly more--began. I quite miss that. The site has become a warzone. It's not relaxing and it's not for roleplay anymore. It's about power. And the powers were balanced nicely before. Yes, members want things done. And we realize that, and we've always known that, and we've worked extreme amounts to dish things out.

And when we dish things out, like the character mods, to fix problems that members have complained about, such as the amount of time it takes for characters to be excepted, we're criticized for that too. People seem quite accustomed to taking the admin team's work for granted nowadays, and the fighting has actually cracked the team. We've lost two excellent administrators since this began. We've been given crap daily since the beginning of this thing and more people want desperately to quit because of it. Everything was fine the way it way. Yes, not flawless, nothing is flawless. But fine.

Sni, I think the reason why people are arguing so much in this topic, are the people who are absolutely not wanting to even try it out. I'm willing to try it out, and if it doesn't work out, we can stop it. I don' want the site to be torn apart over this though. So, I'm not taking sides anymore. I'll be in the middle.

Sno, I deleted it because I didn't see Sniggle's post. That's all. That was my fault.

Nico, I haven't really fought much in this topic. I've been pretty neutral but agreed with having an advisor, other than that I hadn't really had myself involved in it because I'm not one for arguments, they always end up in me crying most times because I am a sensitive person, however I haven't cried yet, which is a record. I also want you to read ALL seven paragraphs I posted as my opinion earlier in this topic, because then you shall know I do understand the admin's point of view. Much like Angel I had stated things about both parties and I suggested a compromise as well in there. That's all I'd like you to note. Also I know you're sorry for neglecting me dear. ^_^

I agree with you though.

:3 I didn't think I was neglecting you at the time, I only treated you as I treat everyone. I see it know though. I can't imagine how I would have reacted. Much worse, so thank you very much. I am a pretty blunt person, and this also leads to me not ever really noticing disturbance, my bluntness must be matched with more bluntness. So really, just tell me: "hey nico/anyone else, I, like a lot of members, feel as if ________." I want to avoid making anyone cry in the future. Oh dear gosh, that would be awful and unintended.

But like you I'm a crier, so of course I cry over everything. (pretty much, unless I just get sassy and intolerable.)

But if you ever want anyone to talk to about blows or things you receive, believe you me, I can relate, girlfriend. Even if we don't have much trust built up, I'm a good pair of ears. (just a warning: I also have a big mouth, xD But I will understand crying.) If my original post came out too harsh, it wasn't intended to. Maybe it was supposed to be a little harsh, very blunt, kinda stubborn, but I wasn't targeting you and I would never wish to upset you. If I did upset you I would take it down. Everyone just had to see their actions from a perspective of basic indifference.

I like hearing both sides of any topic. Everyone is left or right one thos. I can't even read all of these comments because most ofyou have strayed from advisors on to whos wrong who's rights.

I love every single person and everyone has put work into this site. It has to improve fo stay up, but most everyone seems to want it more complacated then it should be. there's a line between improvment and and just tacking on spare parts with no function.

Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy and support doing activies and benefits, but some of you see it as the most important thing. Who's doing this,.who's got that, Who said what.

Last I checked it was a roleplay site. Runned by relieable people and teaming with members who just enjoyed having someone to share interest in.

I understand that people want more, they want to prove they have what ot takes to do something, thy want attention. Fine go for it, but social contracts claiming power with happiness is disgusting to me.

If it would make you happy, make you feel better I would decline my position willingly for someone who could do much better then me if it would benefit this site.

I don't think it matters though. All i've seen is a bunch of holes in this boat, it's having trouble staying up.


As for advisors. I like the idea of someone jusy keeping admins fouced
Hate the idea of too much power

Sounds like a cool idea after everthing is settled.

And as of Elites and Admins, I don't care at the moment.

Power drives people nuts. Whether they abuse it or not. Think about having someone who has power over all the admins, technically.

I doubt it would benefit people.

The Advisor wouldn't have any power over the admins, the job is to keep them on track with what they decide to do, and provide an extra opinion in those matters. Not tell them what to do and how to do it.

Just Sayin, again.

Guys, this is upseting me. Its not fair to anyone to fight like this. I'm getting very "emotional" about this. It makes me really upset to see people this way. I broke down earlier because of all the fighting. I don't know if any other members feel this way but, its tearing the site apart and the members. Everyones taking sides, and I just don't understand the point.

I'm switzerland in this argument, so don't expect me to choose a side. Not that I can change or fix any of this because I'm a member but, yeah. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Everyone feels this way, Kenzie. We all just want the fighting to stop.

I know Sno and Gaz had an issue with how the site was running before they suggested this. I know they thought things were moving slowly, and yeah, sometimes updates were slow, but I thought everyone was happy. There were a few little fights, but what do you expect from a site of 3,000 people?
At this moment, even though I think that someday an advisor may be an option to consider, I think that right now it's just causing more problems. I think that right now it's not the right decision, it's causing too many fights and it won't work out.
Even a compromise. Those people that don't want the advisor will be against it, and those people that do want it, if it doesn't work out, will give everyone grief that they didn't try hard enough.

This is never going to end peacefully unless we just put this to bed. I'm not saying we completely say no to the advisor role. But at the moment, with everyone I would suggest as a candidate either gone, busy or leaving, I do not think it is the right option. And I believe that continuing the discussion about it will only cause more fights.

I think the fair compromise on this issue is something a lot of people here have agreed would be good, try out the Advisor position for a few months, and see how it goes.

Angel, just to note at the beginning of this, it's not to argue with what you said but it's a small little bit that came to mind as I read your last post. I honestly don't mean to offend anyone with what I am about to say, I don't intend to but it happens anyway. So I am sorry in advance.

I'd like to point out that nothing can change and be better until you have a fallout and you hit rock bottom, it just happens it honestly does, I have experienced it first hand because all my life I've been sitting at rock bottom and it gets worse by a bit but then it gradually gets better.

Now with a site of that many there's bound to be some arguments in here, people argue and debate because we're only human and some of us just have stronger feelings for what we believe is right and how we choice to go about that depends on the person really. I'd also like to mention in this point that, fights wouldn't really need to happen if people had simply voted, yes or no or stayed uninvolved and didn't bash each other. I do admit both sides were being incredibly harsh here and it got to a rough spot because we all hit weak spots but maybe if we remember in the future to perhaps keep our opinions in our minds our write it out somewhere else and not clutter this it wouldn't have to have been as big as it is. Perhaps we should have just asked to direct the PM's to you Angel and then you could answer them to the best of their abilities and if you had admin panel you could have possibly locked this thread so it couldn't be posted in and that way, no fights, and only votes and things would stay in the pm's and not put conflict on the whole site, but hey we learn from our mistakes and I think that's something we could all do next time it's a big vote like this.

I don't think it's fair to just lay this down now after it go so far, there's always going to be the pleased side and the side that's angry about it but that happens in stuff like this and it happens in real life politics when the government decides to do something and has a vote, not everyone is in favour of it but it happens none the less.

So this is my last post and final post in this topic ever, if you have anything to say about the things I have said in this topic alone, feel free to pm me about it and leave it out of the topic for the sake of the other members. so they don't have to see it anymore and I will respond to you, I mean this in the most respectful and calming matter possible. Not trying to spark something but if you have a bone to pick with me, just please pm me instead of putting the burden on everyone else who isn't involved.

Okay I haven't posted in this thread yet but I've been reading /most/ of the posts. And I can see both sides of the argument. It is clear that both sides have plenty of support (the poll is almost fifty fifty) and I think we need a compromise. Having access to the mod forum I can see most of the upcoming events - there are quite a few - and I can see why the admins/staff are saying they are doing a lot for the site. Because they are. I can also see why the members want an advisor. Because they can't see all this. So maybe in the future we can have better communication of what is coming up though if you look at the recent news post made by our lovely admin Zan, a few of the upcoming events are hinted at there.

Anyway. Compromise. I suggest that we do try this advisor position out, it has enough votes that it is obviously a popular idea. But maybe we try it out in a month or two, after the admins have had a chance to get all the events that have planned out. Some of these events have been in planning for several months and it would be a crime to deny them the opportunity to at least get these out as their OWN achievements before we try the advisor. This way we both get the advisor Sno, Gaz and a portion of our members want (albeit not right away) and we also let the admins finish off what they've got planned.

Personally I don't see another solution that will please the most members. Yes, it's not perfect. But I'm sure more than anything members just want an end to this fight and this compromise will provide that end.

I would still be willing to try it out, because if it doesn't work out, I'm pretty sure that those willing to try it would see that it isn't working out, and they would be fine with throwing the idea in the trash after that, but whatever. If it's going to cause "World War III on chb", then no.

The admin had discussed the Charlie Compromise prior to it being posted here. We all agree to it.

Just a question. Does the advisor have actual Veto power, or do they just make suggestions?

TL;DR- Advisor: their word is god *or* Advisor: S/He lays guidlines.

I'm one hundred percent indifferent, no matter which way it goes, I just wanna know.

The Advisor has no Veto power and doesn't have a vote in decisions, just lends an opinion and keeps the admins going.