The Third Party

I said I was going to sleep, but I got to thinking, and I decided to act on my thoughts. I resigned from my adminship about an hour ago because I said that I couldn't take sides in this debate, fight, whatever you want to call it, that's going on between The First Party (Sno, Gaz and the old members of the site) and The Second Party (the admin team). But then I realized that there's not always just two sides to every battle. I have decided that there should be a Third Party.

I've been told more than once that I am, or was, the only admin to respond to the messages and PM's of some people. Hopefully the outcome of this Third Party will stop that from happening. This is not me saying that the admin team is not a good one. Let me start out this message by telling you all just how amazing that team is. They're kind, and generous, understanding, mature beyond their years (most of the time), and they truly do care about this site and they care about each and every one of you.
They all deserve to be administrators, and they all perform their jobs perfectly. They make mistakes. And they're prideful, I won't deny that. But really, who isn't? This is a team of individuals that are all under the age of 18 and are running a site, no, keeping a site of over 3,000 members alive and thriving! I'd say that that's pretty damn amazing.

As for the other side of this brouhaha, which will hopefully be extinguished after this, stands Sno, Gaz and other elite members. They have the best intentions. Some may call Sno power hungry, but I truly do not believe this to be the case. Some say Gaz is an ass. I do believe this to be the case, though I still respect him and am proud to call him my friend. This group of people have been through the ups and downs on this site. They've seen its best years, and its worst. Sno is not power hungry. He just wants what's best for CHB, and he'll go to extreme lengths to do it. He's not an evil person. He's persistent, yes. And also very prideful. But again, aren't we all? But this whole big thing started out as him suggesting something, civilly suggesting something to the admin team, and it somehow, through a series of unfortunate, but inevitable events, it turned into this mess you have here. With one side meeting in secret to plan their next move, and the other holding the ban hammer ready to fight.

I say it needs to end.

Let me take you back to the beginning, to the day that the meeting was help.

About a week and a half ago, perhaps more, Sno approached the admin team (minus Sniggle because she was on vacation) with the proposition of an idea. Gaz joined in as Sno's company and another opinion on the meeting.

Last year, after a previous series of unfortunate events, much like this one, Sno left CHB and went on his adventure through the interwebs. He was the admin, staff, and member of multiple sites, and he gained knowledge about himself and about how to lead a site. He found that the best sites, most of them, often consist of an admin team, and a head admin, or advisor. This was the idea that he suggested to the admin of CHB.

Let me explain what the duties of an advisor would entail. An advisor would be a guide, of sorts. They would take the admin team and help them along when they need it. They would provide unbiased perspective on situations, deal with the technical side of the site, and sometimes give the acting admin team a kick in the butt to get them moving when they need to.

In the process of this meeting, which again, Sni was absent for, the people involved went away with the idea that we were going to implement this advisor role to CHB. There were people suggested for this role, but at the moment I'm just talking about the idea, so we'll leave the candidates suggested out of this message.

Despite the fact that it was pretty much agreed upon that CHB should have an advisor, nothing was put into action because myself, Zan, Skye and Nico wanted to hear Sni's input. It was a few days before Sni had internet access to reply. During that time, the opinions of most of the admin involved in the meeting changed. As the discussion continued, the admin team decided against the idea of an advisor.

Well, like I said, Sno is persistent. He strongly believes that this is the best option for CHB and will better the community as a whole. Discussion between all people involved in this idea continued on for days, but no side would give an inch. They're stubborn, and they're prideful.

And so, here we are. With one admin resigned, four admin freaking out, and a group of elite members planning what they're going to do next. And what about you members? Well, most likely, you're all just trying to keep your heads down and pray that this will blow over.

During one of his speeches in the chatbox, Sno said that "the admin are there to serve the members". This is exactly right. The admin are there to keep the site running for the members.
So here is my suggestion. Let the members decide.
After all, who doesn't love a good ol' democracy? Hm? Well, I can see the two sides involved in this wouldn't.

If it is decided that there should be an advisor (No one in particular, just the idea as itself) then the admin would have to admit that they're not doing their jobs as well as they're capable of. They'd have to admit that they require help, they require advice, and they require a motivator from time to time. There's nothing wrong with admitting you need help. Don't let your pride get in the way.

If it is decided that there should not be an advisor (Again, no one in particular) then Sno and his elite would have to admit that perhaps what works for other sites does not work for CHB. They would have to admit that they were wrong, and they would have to let the issue drop. They have good intentions. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you were mistaken. Don't let your pride get in the way.

So now, after hearing about the issue, the idea, and the winning and losing side for both parties, I suggest that the members decide. It's their site. They are the ones that keep it active, and its the job of the staff to keep it maintained.
It is not in the power of the admin or Sno to decide how this site is run. It is the decision that should be made by the community.

Above this message is a poll. It is asking for a simple vote from the members of this community many of us call home. Should there be an advisor? Or should the admin work as they are now?
We are not talking about anyone in particular, we're not talking about a dictator, we're simply taking this whole fight and breaking it down to what it originally began as. An idea. An innocent idea that exploded into a medley of insanity.
You're the voice of the site. I suggest that you decide.

I'm very sorry for going against the wishes of the admin. I know that you said that you did not want a poll because you would have to be the ones that deal with an advisor. But here's the thing.... If the members vote yes for something, sometimes you just have to swallow it and see how things go. No decision is final. Maybe the poll will decide on having an advisor and it won't work out. I'm sure whoever it is will not go on a rampage and demand that they keep their job.

And I'm very sorry to Sno if this poll does not go in the direction of having an advisor. I know that you're experienced, and I know that an advisor may work for some sites. But if the members vote against it, that means that it won't work for CHB.

And members, no matter what the outcome, this site will never be able to function if you don't trust your admin. They were chosen because they are qualified. They have kept their positions because they remained qualified. You have to trust that they care about you. I saw it firsthand. You don't know how hurt the admin get when we hear about people bashing us. You have no idea how hurt I was when I read the messages posted about myself by some of the members, by some of my friends. It cuts deep.
If this site is going to work, if it's going to function, we can't have bashing. We have to have trust, compassion, and understanding from every single person on this site, staff and members, no matter what the outcome of this poll.

I think we could use an advisor to help out the admin team. I believe we have a very good admin team, however they are human, and they do make mistakes. Several of the admins are leaving this fall, and we will need to replace them with new people, and these new people will be needing guidance and help when it comes to running the site. Having an advisor be very benificial to everyone, because it would help the admins with the site, and by extension help the members because the site is succesful. There would be no harm in having a third party, if it works out it will help out site become the best that it can be, and if it doesnt, then everything will stay the way it is. As I see it, everyone would have something to gain, by at least giving the advisor idea an opportunity to work, if you cut it off before it even starts, you will never know what it could have done. But if you give it a chance and it works then the site will be even more succesful.

I have to go with Hawk on this one. The administration team is only human and they make mistakes. An advisor would be a good idea. The advisor would have to have the ability to make unbiased decisions, but he/she would be beneficial to everyone. They would help the admin make decisions, and help guide them on the right path to make the website better.

I'm not saying that the admin team isn't doing a good job, they are. But again, they're human, and it wouldn't hurt to have another person giving their input in.

but they are not an admin, they are there to guide the admins, and help them make the best decisions for the wellbeing of the site. They are there to help the admins run this site.

Exactly. There really is no need for making a whole nother staff member for something we basically already have. I have voted no for the exact reason. In response to Hawk and Pip, yes, the admins are only human, but the Adviser would be as well. Everyone will make mistakes no and again. What will adding yet another specific position to the staff change for that?

The admins are doing their job quite well, and despite the rumors of how this site is doing as a whole, it's still running fantastically. I do not really like the idea of 'Democracy.' That doesn't always settle right with this site, even if it's the members who vote. We have a decent enough staff where problems can be resolved pretty fairly. I don't see the point of adding another adviser, when basically it is just another admin slot.

When Hawk says they are there to 'guide the admins' I basically just take it as the position to be just another admin. Others may agree or disagree. This adviser would probably end up being a promoted admin or mod, or maybe even an old admin or mod. But really, if you really think about it, it's just another admin, a member of the staff. They are there to help and guide people of the site because that's what we are. The admins and mods on this site are there to help guide members and help each other out as fellow members of the staff. It wont make a difference in my eyes, but that's just my opinion.

~Kat

Why dont we at least give this idea an opportunity to show us how it would work. We could instate a guide, and see how things pan out. If it works, then that would be great for our site. If it doesnt work, we get rid of it, and things go back to how they were before. If you guys dont even give it a try you will never know what might have happened, and the possibility of it helping our site will never have been available.

If it were not to work, the advisor would probably just sorta get rid of itself, possibly just blend into another admin. But I think it would be good to have someone that has lots of experience, that the new admins can talk to about different and beneficial ways to handle things.

But you are never gonna know if you dont give it an opportunity, and it probably would work well if people werent so prideful to accept help when they meed it

There are a few people I know, would be great for this position.

So what your saying is that you would rather leave things the way they are, then have the possibility to make things better and more beneficial for the whole site?

These new admins would be why we need an advisor, someone to guide them, and help them along with any questions they would have about things. Its not an easy task being an admin, even more so for a site this big, with so many active members.

So why do you think and advisor would be unbiased or know what they're doing? It' not easy for the admins, but it wouldn't be easy for the advisor, either. Nothing is to say that they'd know what they're doing more than anyone else on the site. Nothing is to say that they'll consider the opinions of the members any more than staff. Nothing is to say that they'll actually be able to give the admins a shove, because we already give ourselves shoves. Do you notice how often we're in the chatbox telling eachother to go to the mod cave or leaders lounge? Part of the reason events take some time to plan out is because we try to get everyone in agreement. So we wait for all of or most staff to give their opinions. What makes you think that adding another person that we have to wait for to give opinion would make things better?

An honestly, maybe I'm biased as an admin, but before this whole advisor thing was unleashed, I thought it was doing pretty good. Obviously there are occasional skirmishes and slow activity but that isn't unusual for a site. I don't think what we have now is so bad.

Sno, I'm curious, if we did instate you as 'Advisor,' and the staff and community disliked your position, would you step down without a huge hullabaloo? I mean, I personally think there is no room to try this unless you promise to do that. I know the title is 'Advisor,' but it is still pretty much a normal admin position. In my eyes, we're just polling for you to be an admin. Also, I'd like a written description of this position and what it entails from you, if you don't mind.

Also I'll write my long / possibly tiny opinion when I get on a computer. So don't finish the poll before then, okay?

Okay, so it won't go behind your back, Sno. I just don't want to work with you. I don't think I could. Our opinions, as it already seems, clash and explode into fire.

I've got a question, though. If you aren't going to be the advisor, then who would you suggest be promoted to the position?